RosterBation Phase One - Bring Em Back Edition
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 11:10 AM PDT
in Los Angeles Dodgers Roster
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PrintOn July 10th the Dodgers looked like one of the worst teams in LA Dodger history, a full ten games below .500 even though they had only played 92 games. With 80 games left most fans felt this team had a better chance to end with a top five draft pick then win over 80 games. Not sure how other fans felt but when I heard suggestions that we should bring back the same team, my immediate reaction was WHY would you bring back such a group of riff and raff. Muppets are cute and all but do we really need them playing baseball? I guess the answer is because you play 162 games not 92. In the second half the worm turned and it was one hell of a big worm.
Split W L RS RA WP First Half 41 51 340 373 .446 Second Half 40 27 291 227 .597
In one of the more dramatic turnarounds in LA Dodger history, the Two Superior and the Lugnuts managed to turn a dismal season into one of the more enjoyable seasons a non post-season team will ever have.
Rosterbation is the manipulation of a teams roster until you reach a climatic result. Sometimes the results are not what you were hoping for. In this scenario I'm going to try to build a roster that uses all of the key components of the 2nd half drive while maintaining the exact Payroll expenditure in 2011 using Eric Stephen's Payroll Worksheet as my guideline.
Remember, this is an exercise simply to see what it would take to bring back the exact same team.
Constraints are a plenty.
1. 22,000,000 in deferred payments for 2012
2. Lilly's salary goes up to 12,000,000 in 2012
3. Juan Uribe's salary goes up to 8,000,000 in 2012
4. Matt Guerrier's salary goes up to 4,750,000 in 2012
5. Matt Kemp, James Loney, Andre, Kershaw will all get huge bumps in arbitration
So even with Furcal and Broxton dropping off, it will not be an easy task to simply maintain the status quo of $114,646,132.
Can it be done?
Many of the numbers you see are from Eric's best estimates for 2012 who has done yeoman's work in making sure that TBLA has the latest payroll information. Many of you may not even be aware of this prodigious worksheet but rest assured that if you see a discrepancy between the goto payroll site Cot's and Eric's, count on Eric's being right. In every case where they disagree he has had his numbers confirmed by the Dodger brass or from the Bankruptcy filings. Below his worksheet Eric has extensive payroll notes on each player.
So let us take a look at the projected roster and salary as we try to match $114,500,000.
C - I offer Rod 2,000,000 and if he does not take it then I move on. He had a good year but he is a 36 year old catcher heading into 2012 and he likes playing in LA. AJ Ellis is the backup.
1st - shockingly I'm all for bringing James back for an encore. Eric thinks it will cost $6,000,000, I tend to agree.
2nd - The Muppet show becomes a Tag / Team for Carroll and Miles both accepting 1,500,000 deals.
SS - Dee Gordon returns to give us thrills and chills.
3rd -Juan Uribe needs to bounce back to his norm which is barely acceptable. Paying him $8,000,000 kills me.
RF - Andre comes back, I'm offering him $11,000,000 in arbitration a two million dollar raise coming off a season in which his power disappeared and he ended up with season ending knee surgery.
CF - Eric thinks Matt can be had for $13,000,000 in 2012.
LF - Jerry Sands should get first crack at this
OF - Juan Rivera at $2,500,000 may not take it but that is what I offer him. If he does not I simply using the saving and bring back Casey Blake.
OF - Tony Gwynn, Eric thinks $1,000,000 gets him done. I want him on the team.
SP - Clayton hits $6,000,000 in his first foray into the world of arbitration
SP - Chad Billingsley is already pictured in at $9,000,000. He best bounce back
SP - Ted Lilly is a budget killer at $12,000,000 but at least he's productive
SP - Hiroki Kuroda is coming back in this scenario and he's going to do it for $7,000,000 in 2012 and a deferred payment of $2,000,000 in 2013. He is also getting $1,500,000 in 2012 from his 2011 contract so he's sitting pretty good.
SP - What can you do? With Rubby out the options are hard. Granted Padilla did nothing to help the team in 2011 but I'm forced to roll the dice with him one more time, giving him a base of $1,000,000 with boatload of incentives.
SP - Dan Eveland has done enough that I don't want to lose him but I don't want him as my 5th starter. I give him a guaranteed 500,000 deal and stash him in the minors as my first call up when injuries hit. You won't see Nathan Eovaldi on this list, I'm simply not ready to hand him a spot in the rotation. While Webster, Withrow, and Eovaldi are all possible future rotation work in 2012 I don't want any of them in April.
RP - Kuo is the only pitcher with a question mark here. Will he take an offer of $1,500,00 after such a tough year. I'd non tender and make the offer. He could say no and see what else he will get. Under no circumstances do I tender him for arbitration. If it was up to me I'd tell Kuo he's in a the battle as a fifth starter and to come into spring expecting to start and give him plenty of incentives.
RP - The rest of the staff is bound to the team so they get what they get.
| Position | Name | Salary - 2012 |
| Catcher | Rod Barajas | $2,000,000 |
| Catcher | AJ Ellis | $435,000 |
| 1st Base | James Loney | $6,000,000 |
| 2nd Base | Jamey Carroll | $1,500,000 |
| 2nd/3rd | Aaron Miles | $1,500,000 |
| ShortStop | Dee Gordon | $420,000 |
| 3rd Base | Juan Uribe | $8,000,000 |
| 1st/3rd/OF | Russell Mitchell | $420,000 |
| Left Field | Jerry Sands | $420,000 |
| MVP Spot |
Matt Kemp | $13,000,000 |
| Right Field | Andre Ethier | $11,000,000 |
| Outfield | Juan Rivera | $2,500,000 |
| Outfield | Tony Gwynn Junior | $1,000,000 |
| Cy Young/ Ace | Clayton Kershaw | $6,000,000 |
| Better Than Nothing | Chad Billingsley | $9,000,000 |
| One More Time | Hiroki Kuroda | $7,000,000 |
| Jamie Moyer Spot | Ted Lilly | $12,000,000 |
| Gotta be someone | V Padilla | $1,000,000 |
| Closer | Javy Guerra | $420,000 |
| K/9 Boss | Kenley Jansen | $435,000 |
| Emerging Setup Man | Josh Lindblom | $420,000 |
| Hot Sister Spot | Blake Hawksworth | $435,000 |
| Who the hell knows spot | Kong-Chih Kuo | $1,500,000 |
| Wasted Money Spot | Matt Guerrier | $4,750,000 |
| Wild Ass Lefty ReBorn Slot | Scott Elbert | $420,000 |
| Minors Depth | Dana Eveland | $500,000 |
| Sitting on the Dock of the Bay | Manny Ramirez | 8,087.432 |
| Ned Folly Spot | Juan Pierre | 3,050,000 |
| Paying through the nose forever | Andruw Jones | $3,375,000 |
| Deferred From Previous Contract | Hiroki Kuroda | $1,500,000 |
| What could go wrong | Jon Garland | $1,500,000 |
| Fragile Egg Deferred | Rafy Furcal | 3,000,000 |
| Beard Bonus | Casey Blake | $1,500,000 |
| Totals | $114,257,432 | |
There you have it. It does not contain the big banger that Ned says they will bring in for 2012. It does have Andre who might earn his $11,000,000. It does have Juan Uribe who might bounce back to norm which would turn out to be a big bounce. It does have either a full year of Jerry Sands or Juan Rivera. It does count on James Loney being at the least James Loney career guy not James Loney awful 1st half 2011 guy.
Most of all it has Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw.
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Comments
I actually have my 2012 roster post coming Thursday – was going to run it today but I decided to let Matt Kemp Fever play out a little longer.
Anyway, I think you’re low on Kershaw. In Lincecum’s first year as an arbitration-eligible player, the Giants put in $8 million. Lincecum asked for $13 million, and ultimately they settled on a two-year, $23 million deal.
It’s possible Kershaw signs a multiyear deal that’s backloaded, but that’s the only way I can see him earning as low as $6 million next year.
Cy Young winner Clayton Kershaw is gonna push that price tag way up.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think Kershaw will top Lincecum’s $9m first year, but yeah he will end up with something starting with a 7. I just haven’t bothered to change the worksheet yet.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
This all just throws into focus what problems the Dodgers have. The payroll has to increase — it just has to.
I mean, let’s say this is right and the Dodgers do, in fact, have to pay Kershaw… oh, let’s call it 1.25 million more, just to put a number on it. If the payroll does not increase, that 1.25 million has to come from somewhere…. most likely it is the Juan Rivera slot. He likely does not sign for 2.5 million anyway, so they sign somebody else for $1 million…
…but then there’s Kuroda. I believe that if he returns to the Dodgers, he’ll do it at below market value — but $9 million (of which $2 is deferred) is way below market value, isn’t it? I know your goal here was to bring ’em all back, so you are allowed some fudging of numbers — just again, this throws the underlying point into sharp relief:
The payroll has to increase. It just has to. That is an uninspiring team for $114 million, and there may be some unreasonable assumptions in there as you tried to put the band back together.
The payroll has to increase. It just has to.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I know. And I don’t mean to call out phil, not at all — this was a fun read, and it really throws the payroll situation into focus.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember people talking about arb numbers for Price and Kershaw (on MLBTR) this year
saying around 4-5 million, but I don’t think those people expected Kershaw’s season that he has had. I think you’re right and he gets closer to 8 million than 6, though I think he will ask for a good amount less than Lincecum.
Dream scenario
Fielder AND Aramis. Roll with kids at C, 2B, SS, LF. Find one decent innings eater for the 4th spot and use a kid in the 5th.
WGT.
by silverwidow on Sep 27, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
RosterBation Phase One – Bring Em Back Edition
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
This was great Phil
Very well thought out. I like it, and surprisingly it gives basically the same exact team as this year. Idk how i feel about that.
RosterBation Phase One – Bring Em Back Edition
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not surprising that he did it
It’s surprising that he brings back the same team without the budget going up, even with all the arb raises.
See my comment above. Phil gets a wide berth from me for attempting to do this, but to do it he had to make some unreasonable assumptions that mean it probably is not possible to bring back this team without the budget going up.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I have Kuroda making 1.3 less in 2012 then 2011. He’s a year older, we are the only team he will play for in the US, we do have some leverage. His was the only contact that I deferred, if you really think he wants that 1.3 then it can simply get paid in 2013. Deferred is not cheating it is what the Dodgers have done and will probably continue to do.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Juan Rivera was a waiver wire pickup. I don’t see his situation being much different then Marcus Thames last winter and we got Thames for $1,000,000. If you think another team will give him more then $2.5 then we disagree.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Cheating is such a strong word. I’m OK with deferring the money.
But you can’t call it “1.3 less.” That is just for the current year. Kuroda signed a contract for 12.3 million — of which 4 million was deferred. You have him agreeing to a 9 million contract, of which 2 million is deferred. Do you think he’ll sign for 3.3 million less?
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
He does have the leverage of “nah, think I’ll stay in Japan this year”
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Bah, I missed the deferred 2013 for 2011.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Add another $2 million, deferred to 2014-15? That might work.
But the real point is the one I made above. While this is great work — trying to bring the whole team back without raising payroll — is probably not possible. The payroll has to go up.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Or a sign that we really shouldn’t bring this team back.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Trouble is — and I don’t want to get too deep into it, because I know this is Rosterbation Part One and there is more to come — but improving the team very likely requires increasing the payroll, too.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I am saving myself, biding my time
listening, learning, waiting
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, once you get into the bargain hunting stage you’re pretty much doomed.
Anything I’ve thought of that actually improves the team instead of shuffling deck chairs involves bringing in injury prone players and praying.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah.
We should cut it off there and wait for Part Two.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
After 2 1/2 seasons (90 games) with a 2.90 ERA from 2007-2009, Lincecum earned an $8 million base salary for 2010 knowing that he’d be guaranteed $13 million in 2011.
Kershaw has pitched 3 1/2 seasons (118 games) with a 2.88 ERA.
I don’t know how you can list Kershaw at less than $8 million. And unless you’re assuming a multiyear deal is coming – and I don’t know if you can assume that – I don’t know how you list him below $10 million.
The midpoint in the Lincecum arbitration submissions in 2009-10 was $10.5 million. I’m listing Kershaw at $11 million. To me, that’s logically what he would get if he doesn’t agree to a multiyear deal.
2 Cy Youngs > 1 Cy Young. Lincecum is far and away above anything any other first-time arb pitcher has ever gotten ($4.65 million is that record).
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I can’t see 2 Cy Youngs vs. 1 Cy Young making irrelevant all the other obvious comparison points between the two. Maybe Kershaw would get a little less than Lincecum, Kershaw has the same rate stats that Lincecum had after 2009, but with a year’s more experience.
Maybe I’ll revise down to $10 million, but $8 million or lower looks like dreaming to me. I’d love it if you were right, though.
For the record, I thought Lincecum had an easy case at winning his arb case last year, because the midpoint was $10.5 million, and Ryan Howard and his “special case” of one MVP made $10 million. All Lincecum had to do was argue that he was worth $10,500,001 and he would have won the case and $13 million, so I get that.
But either he really said “screw it, this is enough money for me” (certainly plausible) or his team thought there was a real case he would have lost his arb case and “only” got $8 million.
The awards really are a special case and skew the numbers. I can definitely see the argument for Kershaw, I just think $10 million is too high. If the Dodgers offer something like $7.5 million, I think they end up with a very winnable arb case.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn’t Lincecum also have his pot case hanging over his head as a possible discussion point in the precedings? It was widely considered a team-friendly deal, so there might’ve been some truth to that.
If we agree that the only way that Lincecum was going to get under $10 million in 2010 was with his multiyear deal, then I still don’t understand your logic.
Since we’re not assuming that Kershaw will get a multiyear deal, I just don’t see the evidence that Kershaw would end up with no more than 75% of what Lincecum would have gotten in a one-year deal.
Let’s say this – I bet Kershaw’s team doesn’t submit for $13 million. If he submits for $10 million and the Dodgers submit at $7.5 million, I just can’t see Kershaw losing. Model citizen, Cy Young, pitcher’s triple crown, great resume. And Kim Ng ain’t around anymore :)
(By the way, the reason I’m pursuing this so much is not to be a jerk, but to feel confident about the number I put up Thursday.)
I’ve commented with Jerks, I have worked with Jerks, and you sir are no Jerk
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully he simply gets extended
8/2012
12/2013
15/2014
18/2015
20/2016
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
5/73? Remind me, what did Verlander get, and was it for similar years (arb/FA/whatever)?
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
The logic is that the Ryan Howard deal really was a batshit crazy outlier, and it ended up not lifting up Lincecum.
Lincecum’s number in the first year I’m sure can be argued any number of ways, from $8 million (his actual salary), to $9 million (his salary plus his signing bonus, spread out over the two years), to $10 million (his salary plus full signing bonus, which were received last year).
But the increase from first-year arb to second-year arb is normal (I would use $9m and $14m as his two salaries, a 55.6% increase), so there is no “should have” here. All we have is the actual salary for Lincecum, which is far and away higher than any other pitcher with his service time (Super Two) has ever received.
I certainly see your argument that Kershaw can be argued to be better than Lincecum, that he has nearly a full year more of service time, similar if not better numbers in many cases. But I do think the awards are a special case, for which Kershaw will benefit, just not as much as Lincecum.
I’m willing to concede $9 million is a max for Kershaw, but it’s probably better to wait and see what numbers get filed first.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Selected comps
and why I think Lincecum is more of an outlier.
Jered Weaver (3.127 through 2009): 110 starts, 51-27, 3.71 ERA, 120 ERA+, $4.265 million
Felix Hernandez (3.060 through 2008): 104 starts, 39-36, 3.80 ERA, 114 ERA+, $3.8 million
Justin Verlander (3.002 through 2008): 97 starts, 46-34, 4.11 ERA, 111 ERA+, $3.675 million
Dontrelle Willis (2.143 through 2005): 93 starts, 46-27, 3.27 ERA, 125 ERA+, $4.35 million (prev record for first-time arb pitcher)
Clayton Kershaw (3.105 through 2010): 116 starts, 47-28, 2.88 ERA, 135 ERA+
Willis is the closest of these non-Lincecum comps to Kershaw as he had the great platform year in 2005, narrowly losing the CYA to Chris Carpenter in 2005.
Give Kershaw a boost over Willis, certainly, and add in five years worth of inflation. Give Kershaw a boost for actually winning the award. But double Willis’s salary? That’s a tough sell. Maybe if Kershaw had two Cy Youngs… :)
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Great Stuff Eric
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
In the end I went with Eric’s worksheet, I did no work on this myself regarding Kershaw.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
The Detroit Lions
went on a streak at the end of last year, and are continuing it into the start of this year. No need to blow up this Dodger team now, only thing I’d suggest is dangling Juan Uribe in the shop window and taking whatever offer may come.
Are we the 2012 Lions, or the 2011 Orioles?
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
as long as we don’t hire Buck Showalter…
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
and as exciting the Lions are after 3 games, history is littered with teams that start bad, finish strong, and then come out next year with all this hype and quickly shat the bed
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
This is a mix between reasonable predictions and absolute craziness.
You want Kuo to be in the mix for the 5th starter spot? wha?
for the 4th starter, there are TONS of options on the free agent market. Why go for the guy who didn’t really pitch in 2011 due to injury. I do not get it.
Also Carroll gets way WAY more than 1.5 mill and way WAY more than whatever Miles gets. It makes no sense to act as if they are equal either in 2011 or throughout their careers. Miles might get 1 mill sure. However Carroll is coming off of a two year 4 mill deal, during which he outperformed his contract. He’s old now yes, but with Infante resigning with the Marlins, their truly aren’t many available middle infielders around. I think Carroll could get a 1 year 3.5 mill deal this offseason.
Free agent starters aplenty
Erik Bedard (33)
Mark Buehrle (33)
Chris Capuano (33)
Bruce Chen (35)
Bartolo Colon (39)
Aaron Cook (33) – $11MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Kyle Davies (28)
Doug Davis (36)
Ryan Dempster (35) – $14MM player option, no buyout
Zach Duke (29) – $5.5MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jeff Francis (30)
Freddy Garcia (36)
Jon Garland (32) – $8MM club option with a $500K buyout
Aaron Harang (34) – $5MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Rich Harden (30)
Livan Hernandez (37)
Hisashi Iwakuma (31)
Edwin Jackson (28)
Kenshin Kawakami (37)
Scott Kazmir (28) – $13.5MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout
Hiroki Kuroda (37)
Rodrigo Lopez (36)
Paul Maholm (30) – $9.75MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jason Marquis (33)
Kevin Millwood (37)
Sergio Mitre (31)
Roy Oswalt (34) – $16MM mutual option with a $2MM buyout
Brad Penny (34)
Oliver Perez (30)
Joel Pineiro (33)
C.C. Sabathia (31) – may opt out of remaining four years, $92MM
Javier Vazquez (35)
Tsuyoshi Wada (31)
Adam Wainwright (30) – $10MM vesting option for ’12, $12MM for ’13
Tim Wakefield (45)
Chien-Ming Wang (32)
Brandon Webb (33)
Dontrelle Willis (30)
C.J. Wilson (31)
Chris Young (33)
None of that is relevant to this column.
Remember, this is an exercise simply to see what it would take to bring back the exact same team.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually in reviewing this list not many of the options stand out as making much sense for the Dodgers. Still just one or two of them needs to kinda sorta fit, and I expect as much.
these lists always look long
but when you look closely there are really very few inspiring options
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Sometime you have to look in the right places. The Rockies made a very astute deal last winter when they acquired Felipe Paulino but then failed to use him correctly and stuck him in the bullpen even though he had been better as a starter and had the stuff to be a starter. He failed miserably for them and the Royals picked him for nothing and he’s been their best starting pitcher in 2012. If you looked at the stats you’d say what is the big deal about Paulino, but his peripherals said, this was someone you should roll the dice on.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Thats where scouting comes in I guess
and those seem to be the kind of guys that ned has luck with. I’m really curious to see what happens if he gets majorly restricted on his payroll.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
So the disagreements i see are
1. Kershaw should be at least at $8,000,000
2. Kuroda should be at least $3,000,000 more
3. Juan Rivera will not sign for 2,500,00
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The sheer number of RBIs Rivera has gotten makes me think
he will be given bad offers by not smart GMs. I’m just hoping that doesn’t include ours.
I’d also say 11 is low for Andre and there’s no way Carroll gets a paycut.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
1. You can get around that by signing Kershaw to a long-term deal, backloaded.
2. You can get around that by deferring the 3,000,000 to 2014-15.
3. You might be right on Rivera. Yeah, I know he was released, but I feel like somebody will give him a bad deal. I’ve been wrong before, though, and I could be wrong about this, too.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
for anything other than a bad deal I want Rivera back. I enjoy him on the team. I don’t want to overpay for that pleasure, but I enjoy him
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
unlike many here, I think the man can barely play OF
I bet 3B would hurt the eyes
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Bullpen
Is Hawksworth arb. eligible? Not that he’d be due for a huge raise or anything. Also, McDougall isn’t bound to the team.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I also think Ethier gets more than $11 million. A 20% raise after a decent season is too low for a player in his final year of arbitration.
I’m not exactly sure how you mean this. They make decisions based on resume (stats, experience, etc.). Injuries obviously affected his 2011 output.
Regarding Carroll, everyone in baseball knows he is not a starting infielder but a guy you want to play 80 – 100 games. I simply do not see any team spending more then $2 Million for an old utility infielder. I could be wrong, I was way wrong on someone paying Rod Barajas 3.5 Million.
For those who think Carroll will get a raise in 2012, provide me with some comp’s of utility infielders older then 35, who got raises. Carroll has only two skills, he can play adequate defense at SS, good defense at 2nd, and gets on base but has zero power, and over his career has shown he is a easier out with RISP and like it or not, that is a stat that GM’s and coaches care about. Our own Tim Wallach has stated that his favorite stat is what players do with RISP because that is when pitchers really bear down.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Our own Tim Wallach has stated that his favorite stat is what players do with RISP because that is when pitchers really bear down.
remember this kiddies next time you scream about how much you want Wallach
they are all the same
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
He signed a two year deal worth $2 Million starting in 2011. He was my comp for Carroll.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
ha ha
Okay
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
In the end Humma is probably right.
We cannot keep the same team for the same salary. I tried my best to see if we could but we do appear to be several million short.
No mistaking I was short on the Kershaw arb amount in 2012 and probably Kuroda. You can only defer so much and it already has 2012 and 2013 money coming from 2011. That was why this was called an exercise. I can defend most of my amounts, but not Kershaw and Kuroda.
In the end we probably have to non tender Kuo and say good bye to Rivera unless we find some way to move Uribe while still find a 3rd baseman. I have an idea on that…………
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I’d have to imagine that any deal involving dumping Uribe’s salary would involving taking somebody else similarly overpaid by his team. Nobody will just take his salary, leaving the Dodgers’ ledger cleaner (unless Theo makes good on the “we owe you one” deal for Tray).
I also think Miles is gone under just about any circumstances, but there’s no way he should get 1.5M, especially if Jamey gets brought back too.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Why on Miles? At this point in his career a job share with Carroll is about the best he should expect to happen.
The only way to move Uribe is to eat a good sum of his deal.
Really depends what happens with Aaramis.
People said we could not trade Juan Pierre. We did
Blue Jays not only traded Vernon Wells, they traded Rios.
Bad contracts can be moved. Just have to find a willing partner, it ain’t easy but based on history hard to say it cannot be done.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
If we have to eat Uribe’s salary, we might as well keep him. And if we do eat his salary, it doesn’t clean up the payroll. Of course someone would roll the dice on him if he was free, but that doesn’t help the team.
I think Miles is gone because the Dodgers don’t need him (especially at 7 figures). Roll with Carroll and Sellers, and you’re not much worse off, with a savings of 1M relative to your payroll. If Carroll leaves (or the Dodgers are worried, he might), then you make the play for Miles.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
BTW
While I’m not advocating trading Ethier, plugging Rivera/Sands around Kemp and getting a young starting infielder and some payroll relief might not be so stupid after all . . .
I wish the Dodgers had traded Ethier during his hitting streak, right now his value is definitely damaged. Probably can’t trade him at the moment.
Well according to Fangraphs Kuroda/Ethier brought 5 WAR to the Dodgers this year while being paid 21 mill, so definitely an overpay there. If Kuroda and Ethier come back (Ethier raise, Kuroda cheaper) they would again cost around 21 mill. Could they be worth that? Maybe, it’s conceivable that they could combine for 7 WAR, but Ethier would have to hit with power and maintain his defensive play, while Kuroda would have to have a really good year at age 37. So yeah it could happen, but bot players would have to play at close to their best case scenarios. The real question then becomes, is their a better way to spend that 21 mill?
For instance, would it make sense to replace those two (as well as the 6 mill for James Loney) with Prince Fielder? In his last 5 seasons Fielder has produced a 6.4 WAR season and two 5 WAR seasons but he has also produced a 3.4 WAR and a 1.7 WAR season. His defense is really bad, so when his bat is merely good, not great, he is not very valuable. Kuroda/Ethier/Loney figure to cost about 28 mill for 2012, if Fielder cost 18 mill, that would still leave the Dodgers with 10 mill for a starting pitcher and/or outifleder. That’s not a bad place to be.
The Dodgers would really need to do their homework on this one, Fielder might not hit as well in the NL west, the length of contract makes it a HUGE risk, and it might make it harder to find money for Kemp/Kershaw. Nonetheless It would be unwise not to consider a dramatic move like this. Not when so much is at stake.
Might want to
Write up a fan post?
"Next year, we're definitely going to make the playoffs."
-MVP
by funkyjam on Sep 27, 2011 12:57 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The biggest danger I see is that the tender deadline has to happen first. So if you non-tender Ethier and Loney, you are going all in on Fielder. You then lose all of your leverage.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
That would be a concern. I’m not sure how it would work, would Fielder be secured first with Ethier than being traded? I don’t know. But if the Dodgers think it’s the right way to go, they can find a way.
Wait a sec- you want to bring back Padilla- AGAIN?
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
our payroll is going to dictate
some risks, especially in the number 5 rotation spot.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
EIEIO
or, anyone really
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
based on...
Padilla has a recent history of success. His issue is injuries not performance.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
It does help if he actually gets on the mound
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really just trying to work within my own constraints.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I would rather take a risk with him
then hand the ball to eveland or eo and hope for the best. That is if we can get him that cheap, which we probably can.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
You’ll be handing the ball to one of them after a couple appearances any way.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
exactly
why waste 1 million?
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
Where would you rather spend that 1 million?
again, with our limited payroll you probably have to take some risks like padilla.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Padilla can't stay healthy, and he's not getting any younger or healthier.
take a flyer on someone who might actually be able to contribute more than a few starts
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
I’d say the odds of Eo or Eveland being effective starters for an extended period of time isn’t much better than that of Padilla.
Eo really needs to work on control and a couple of other pitches. And Eveland is, well, Dana Eveland. Not quite an MLB-caliber pitcher.
But at one million does it really matter.
I have no faith that Padilla would be anything other than a back of the rotation guy at this point in his career if he even can start. But there’s really nothing better to spend the million on.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the question is more about whether that is the extra money it would take to resign Kuroda or Barajas or whomever.
And wouldn’t it really be closer to 600K, since Eo or Dana or a sack of meat is still 400K+.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I am down for more Padilla
healthy he is a bargain, not the best I ever had, but not bad either
and I get to hear Vin delight in the soap bubble? – BONUS
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Also: No More Casey Blake. Ever. I love him but he's dunzo
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
Yet he still might be the 2nd best 3rd baseman on the market(no pujols doesn't count)
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
You really think
they’re not going to stick Urinebe out there everyday?
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
Someone has to play 2B also.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Carroll Miles Sellers is somewhat assured at second at this point, no?
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
sellers is probably no more then a backup
miles might not even be that. Hell they both might not even be that.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
I think we know Miles can be a backup, we know Sellers can handle himself defensively everywhere but will he hit enough to even be a Castro?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
To be clear I would like sellers to at worse
be the 25th man on the team. I don’t really know if I want to bring miles back for anything other then the minimum, and even then only if Donnie promises to only play him at 2nd.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Phil summed it up pretty well
and what nolij said about 2nd. Carrol if brought back probably shouldn’t play 162, so some combo of carrol uribe and blake manning 2nd and 3rd along with blake spelling Loney against lefties.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Does he stick his gum underneath you?
by Tim Crews' Dastardly Mustache on Sep 27, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
But seriously
“"Obviously, this neck thing is pretty serious," Blake told Dylan Hernandez of the Los Angeles Times. "I want to be able to move my neck when I’m 50.
Blake has played just 58 of 126 games this season, posting a career-worst .704 OPS and spending three different stints on the disabled list.
He’ll be a free agent this offseason once the Dodgers decline their $6 million team option and Hernandez reports that Blake may be reconsidering retirement after previously saying he planned to play somewhere in 2012 because "doctors have warned him that his condition could worsen if he continues to play.""
Declining 38 year old player at end of contract with neck injury…seems like 50% chance at returning might be generous.
Yeah I was gonna say, I didn't think your comment was that far out of left field
(or 3rd base). ;-)
If he looks like he’ll be nice and healthy, I’d welcome him back for one more year. But that contract is gonna half to be loaded with incentives.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I would
I am counting on a bounce or maybe for your spelling, a splash
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
he is done as a full time 3rd baseman but if they can fix his neck problem he should have a few good years as a right hand platoon partner playing 1st and 3rd.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Who is going to watch Catching Hell
the ESPN documentary on Steve Bartman tonight? One of the few times I wish I had cable.
I'm glad you can read my incomplete sentence
Is that on tonight, and what time if so? lol
Cool, i’ll have to record that for sure.
I think we should trade Ethier and his Salary. Sands in Right, Rivera in left.
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
That gives us more $
to get starters
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
Let's face it
Ethier doesn’t want to be in L.A. and will jump at a free agent offer elsewhere
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
Via MLBTR, A's pick up the former Royal Hawaiian
Phillip Hollingsworth is going to KC for Ka’aihue, according to the A’s.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Now that is not a surprise.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
yup
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
followed by
@jazayerli Rany Jazayerli
retweeted by robneyer
Kila Ka’aihue gets traded to Oakland. I believe this move becomes the immediate favorite for “most predictable trade of 2011.”
(I tend to agree, kinda saw that as a Beane-y move.)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I’m sure this unathletic first baseman will work out for them.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
OPSes .650, leads team in offense.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe between Kila, Carter, Brandon Allen, and Barton they can cobble together a complete player.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
If you combine their minor league numbers sure.
There are three guys in the entire A’s organization under 25 that OPSed .900 this year. That has to be incredibly hard for a team that has a PCL affiliate.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait forgot to take out Carters big league numbers. Make that two.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Monday night: Congrats, Alex Cora’s brother. You are the interim manager for the White Sox for these last two games.
Tuesday morning: [via text] You’re fired.
I have to imagine that it is because Cora will join Oswaldo in Miami and somehow flaunted it.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Still, the White Sox handling of this has been really weird.
Why not just wait until the end of the season to do all of this?
They want Ozzie to see his players in person?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Ozzie not official yet because Florida I’m sure will have to pretend to interview other candidates, though maybe they can get a pass (not sure of their history with MLB, like the Dodgers were able to get a pass with the Mattingly baton handoff). And yes, Ozzie is a minority, but I’m not sure if that satisfies the interview requirement.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Ozzie’s contract was up anyway, and he wanted an extension by yesterday. Sometimes things get accelerated.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems weird to me that it couldn’t wait two days until the season was over. I mean, is seeing his players in person for two games at the end of a season even worthwhile?
I stand corrected
White Sox already picked up his 2012 option (last January), so something had to have happened in recent days to all come to a head yesterday.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Any word on if Ozzie Vizquel would be in the running for the gig?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Ozzie seems like a poor fit for a team run like the Marlins
but he should get along great with Logan.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Morrison even fake-tweeted this morning
You got it Boss! RT @OzzieGuillen: LoMo, let’s go ahead & hit and run here…
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn this will bring tears to your eyes
My first attempt at what the 2008 salary would bring, look at all those BARGAINS
As you can see from the comments, Eric was already making sure nothing was missed because I had made errors a plenty.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
so
where do we put Uribe next year? 2nd or 3rd?
I kinda like the idea of a Dee-Sellers double play combo
I could live with that ............
If Ryan Braun was in Left Field and Albert Pujols was at 1st base.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Depends on who else the Dodgers sign. With the current roster, I would put Uribe at third and use Carroll/Miles/Sellers at 2B. If a 3B who can hit becomes available, Uribe can slide over to 2B.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Dude
Lose the ham and this thing is perfect.
by silverwidow on Sep 27, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
okay, dude. We’ve got some beer and some mustard seed. Are you thinking, what I’m thinking?
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
Has anyone noticed how Victorino’s numbers have fallen off a lot in the last month? He was above Kemp in fWAR back in late August.
Phillies lost 8 in a row for a reason and it wasn’t so much the pitching.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
hawaiian
is simply not a .900 ops player.. law of averages and all that..
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Sep 27, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Regression to the mean (“law of averages”) doesn’t really mean that if you overperform, you must consequently underperform to balance it out. If an .800 OPS player has a .900 OPS, but is still essentially an .800 player, statistically, you should expect him to continue at an .800 clip for perpetuity, in the long run, demonstrating his .800ness. A bad spell is just a bad spell, regardless of the frequency or duration of good spells.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
it’s all good now, threat level back to 2 : )
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
ended in a draw at home, that’s not really trollworthy
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
When was the last time Man U gave up a two goal lead at Old Trafford?
Especially to a team they should be so much better than like Basel.
what if he still thinks they are better then Barcelona?
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
that’s because United fans get delusional about their own importance, as Englanders don’t consider Europe an actual thing
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah that totes happened. I mean, this is the way. Tevez says he won’t come back, can’t get a deal done, comes back, Manchini won’t start Tevez cause he went out and got someone else (better), now this
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Boca can have him, he’s dead weight at this point
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
well this should seal it
FOXSoccerTrax: MORE ON TEVEZ: “He is finished with me. Finished.” Mancini in the presser.
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
the problem is that only
so many teams can afford his weekly salary. my team surely can’t. on top of that the transfer fee? they are really stuck.
coincidentally, ManU never had his contract, West Ham owned him that entire time
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
stop with these fake names
everyone knows that there is country ham, ham salad, and black forest ham
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
fake name
Nottingham Forest only exist in children’s tales and bad movies
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
but you have to call them QPR, and pronounce it like quepiar
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
when you call Aston Villa a fake name, we’re gonna have words
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
is that the guy that they got to replace Charlie Sheen?
If you are going to like a game like soccer, couldn’t you at least be a Serie A geek?
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
oh man, and we’d gone so long liking each other.
I don’t speak Italian, so I won’t follow Serie A : p
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
can we give uribe back to SF?
is there a scenerio where this is possible? without us paying or trading a key player?
As likely as you or I waking up with a supermodel tomorrow morning.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
can she be dead inside?
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
by nolander on Sep 27, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Carlos Santana having a hell of a year
only hitting .240, but .351 OBP and .459 Slugging with 3.7 fWAR overall.
better then you(and I orignally)
might think. His OPS+ actually puts him pretty high up. I’m guessing its all the OBPs
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
I remember when I thought the Bison was a 25 hr guy
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
he could hit 4 home runs to end the season
you never know
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
After 2008 I knew Kemp would be a power bat, and thought he wouldn't hit for average
I knew he would hit 35+ hr but figured it would be with a .270 average or so. My favorite time being wrong ever.
The average is certainly incredible. With his total package, to even be in the running for a batting crown is amazing.
With his total package
the ladies of TBLA nod happily
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I love that i search ".275/.335/.515" in the comments and the only 3 are ones from me
http://www.truebluela.com/2010/12/28/1899643/dodgers-minor-league-countdown-140-131#55478626
I think he will have a nice year, but not how you think
My guess is he hits .275/.335/.515 with 35 homeruns and only 15 stolen bases.
“If we hit that bull’s eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate”
by Ivdown on Dec 28, 2010 9:38 PM PST up actions
Also from the same thread, suck it Humma! :P
I can’t see Kemp putting up a line like that.
Kemp’s ZIPS line was .271/.327/.458, with 28 doubles and 23 HR. If we keep Kemp’s BA and OBP numbers the same — correct me if I’m wrong, but that basically means you gotta take 8 or 10 or 12 of those doubles and turn them into homers.
I dunno. I just can’t see Kemp hitting 35 HR and 20 doubles to put up a line like you indicate.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Dec 28, 2010 9:48 PM PST up actions
Though I did say I didn’t see the Dodgers as a .500 team and said if Kemp put up that line the Dodgers would win 90+ games. I didn’t take Uribe, LF April-Middle of July black hole, Loney being exactly as bad in 4 months as great as he was in 2 months, Ethier hitting like best case scenario Loney, etc…
Why suck it? I was right!
I said if he hit 35 home runs, his OBP would be a lot higher than 327 or 335. And he did, and it is!
Boy, you and I got into it in that thread.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm
I still say suck it just cause you won’t get your 81-81 ;)
There’s no doubt I can get heated, but you give good arguments and are a much worthier foe than I.
Never argue with a man who has more then one law named after him.
That’s the Law
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I have two laws as Humma and five laws under my real name, that I will not share here.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Good God Man
Read a book
A book called The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
And you will thank the Baseball Gods
The day you stumbled upon the Humma
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I really starting to wonder about IIIvdowns parenting skills. Don’t parents read this series to their children to make them dream at night?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Nope, dad was too busy drinking and throwing lamps at walls while I put myself to bed.
But seriously, I don’t think after the age of like 3 I was ever read to from books. My dad did have me read some baseball stuff, though.
Douglas Adams – alot of stuff is overrated, Hitchhikers Guide was not one of them.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I've Joe Morganed this book
Never read it, but am sure it’s not that good
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
I never realized it was a hitchikers guide reference
oops
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
On DT
I think there was some other yahoo who had a hitchhikers moniker
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
Ford Prefect.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
at least
we don’t have any fucking Gandalfs around here
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
The meaning of life is 42, and that's all you need to know.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Frankly, I’ve been considering jettisoning my user name. I adopted it on various boards more than ten years ago. Now I think it’s kind of silly. Maybe better to use my real name.
I dunno. Haven’t decided.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I knew I could count on your support.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I am ok with it too
I am ok with all changes, but Kin needs to keep the puglist icon
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve inspected your member
Like your life your real name is uninspiring
I’d stick with something fanciful and continue to use TBLA as your playground for the fertile imagination you send our way.
/yakkityakdonttalkback
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Sep 27, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Phil has broken man code?
my entire world view has been shattered?
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Keep your hands
off my member
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
I’ve inspected your member
I knew I should have closed the windows.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
From that thread -- Vero Joe, pessimist
I really think you guys should adopt my approach
by having rediculously high expectations of Kemp….I’m still sitting of the 30/30 bandwagon…please take a seat up front seems like all of the passengers got off in July of 2010.
“They will never ketchup to all of the energy that I’ve mustard”
by VeroJoe on Dec 28, 2010 9:49 AM PST actions
30/30… psssshhh.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
How come we dont include Kaz Ishii or Marquis Grissom on the payroll worksheet? Dont we still owe them money?
by Lincoln Kupchak on Sep 27, 2011 1:26 PM PDT reply actions
i’m ok with Eovaldi being the 5th guy. i believe his recent relief numbers are not indicative of his true talent. he came in cold not having pitched in forever.
because I can
I had a glass of wine with my lunch
will make snarky comments and reviewing an RFP easier and more enjoyable
that is all
“I certainly went through the ‘why am I here?’ I left the country for a while. I had money in my pocket and I wasn’t coming back. I went as far as Delta goes non-stop. I spent a lot of time alone.” – Bob Ojeda
Me being 12 at the time, I actually called Delta to see where that would be.
And was on the boat with Tim Crews and Steve Olin.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
sad, that story has made me cry at least 3 times
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
one of the saddest sports stories i remember
was some sting the police did years ago to get felons to turn themselves in. they sent out invitations to a fake sports card signing event, and these guys brought their sons and everything. when they showed up, busted.
I find nothing sad about that transaction other then felons were allowed to reproduce.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Nolander, this is where you get that rep.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
in fairness
they probably reproduced before they were felons. it was sad because of the kids, not the adults.
Erik Bedard
has never been on an 80-win team. From mlb.com:
The intrigue, too, is in the mystery of exactly how strong Bedard feels and how long he can go. Sidelined for much of September because of left knee and left lat injuries, Bedard’s last start came 17 days after his previous outing, and he went just 2 2/3 innings. His defense wasn’t help, but of his 76 pitches, 51 came in an interminable third inning.
What's KP?
besides army punishment?
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
Scouting lingo
KP = Can’t Play. Basically a guy who has no business on a baseball field. He literally brings nothing to any aspect of the game.
I think you have a mutually exclusive sentence construct here
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
If Velez had no speed I'd assume he would be
But everyone can either hit but not field, field but not hit, or at least just run fast. The closest would probably be Cormier.
1956 - 2011
Marty comes to mind
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
2008 Sweeney
Is a no-brainer KP, as was 2010 Garret Anderson, Ramon Ortiz, and Russ Ortiz, and 2011 Cormier and Velez. The 2011 version of Navarro was fairly close.
by The Dude Abides on Sep 27, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree
those guys were done, but they would not have been scouted as KP
KP is KP, if you make it to the majors, you can play. Maybe you get old, maybe you get hurt, maybe you can’t make it in the bigs…but you can play
I am KP
Eugenio and the others, not so much
Do you guys have any idea how good they are? Even the bad ones? It overwhelms my brain how good they are…
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Some of us are born KP.
Some of us are made KP.
But in time, all of us are KP.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Some of us
have KP thrust upon us
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
by mleadman on Sep 27, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
it only gets dirtier and more tragic from here
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Shea Hillendbrand is the only zero tool player I can remember.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
and he was a prick too
He had it all
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
This is just about 180 degrees from Comment of the Day
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by definition, no player in the MLs could have ever been marked KP by a scout, n’est ce pas? That’d be the kiss of death to your ballplaying career
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
that’s where I got all Mutually exclusive and Kin dared me to prove the existence of reproducing pigeons
when the truth is that pigeons are all CIA robot spies watching us
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Best I can come up with.
Negative career WAR, negative baserunning, negative fielding, ISO less than .100 on base under .300, no gold gloves at least 3000 PA
Gene Michael
Tom Veryzer
Gary Sutherland
Johnny LeMaster
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Gene Michael
was a shit manager too. So, bonus points
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
You have no idea how shocked I am that you tried to answer this question in the way it was phrased. How bored are you right now?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
he spent his morning
making fun of organic vegetables. You do the math.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
I wish I would have seen this so reg would have had an ally
by Eric Stephen on Sep 27, 2011 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I was defending them…
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m going to miss my daily tomatoes. I may have to go greenhouse this fall.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Where you live
plants may live through the winter. A couple of mine did
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
My tomato garden rocked this year
tonight making turkey meatballs with fresh tomato sauce for supper
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Also a lie
cake
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Ice cream is truth though
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
gelato – invented by my people, the second greatest footballing nation ever
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Gelato is great
Not because it’s Italian, but because it’s great
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
it was more of a
duh, of course its delicious its chock full of sugar!
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
and good for you
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
well sure, some italian things are bad
nothing you put in your mouth is bad
but I am glad my PC is not an olivetti
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Organic as a concept is not a lie, Organic as a defined legal standard could be
Growing local, not shipping shit across the country, using organic methods and not spraying shit with poison, picking when fresh rather than when the calendar says so = all give you happier, healthier, tastier food
no lie
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
true story (haven't used that one in awhile)
it’s so toxic to produce a Prius, it will never reduce to carbon footprint it made being produced
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to get the word out! Going local and smart buying do more for the environment than any “green” purchase you could ever make!
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
anything what runs on batteries is a bad idea. Top Gear said it last night. Hydrogen is clearly the future, and batteries clearly are not
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
you know things are staged in Top Gear. The point of that segment wasn’t these cars are crap, but rather, if you get stranded in Lincoln, Lincoln has no refueling stations.
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
no one buying electric cars
is unaware of the risks. If they are, well, stupidity tax I guess.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Until science actually pulls that off
I’m going to continue using batteries
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
The idea is great
I could have sworn I read it was often a scam or something. Either way, expensive it is.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
I keep reading people choose to be poor
Fuckers
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
Evidently we can kind of cheat the politic deal by talking in a dead thread.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
if a comment is made in a dead thread, does it offend anyone
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we have mostly avoid politics
but we skirt dangerously close
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
I know I like to get dangerously close to a skirt now and then
/sexual politics on the baseball blog
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
apparently TWA stewardesses weren’t allowed to talk politics or religion. Chatting on TBLA is like flying TWA in 1963
by Josie Becker on Sep 27, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Waiting for our remote site to fire up some machines, so fairly bored.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
they even think their COLLAPSE has to be the worst?
It’s not. Fuck them.
by delias man on Sep 27, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 13 recs
So good
I ask you good brothers and sisters, join me in making this green
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Even made me smile, and I’m not sure a Delias comment has ever made me do that before.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Have you seen
the shit you write?
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
you need to know
that nothing I say is to be taken seriously
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
I always think of the 64 Phillies
When I think of September choke jobs.
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
2007 Mets
entered the final 17 games in the season with a 7.5 game lead in the division and lost.
The next year was not as bad but they still blew it again.
1995 Angels was the worst of All Time the last time someone did this.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Sep 27, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
ouch
On August 16, they held an 10½-game lead over the Texas Rangers and 11½-game lead over the Seattle Mariners, but suffered through a late season slump, including a nine-game losing streak from August 25 to September 3. They were still atop the division, leading Seattle by six games and Texas by 7½, when a second nine-game losing streak from September 13 to September 23 dropped them out of first place.
wikipedia
I remember being in the van on the way home
and hearing the final out on the radio.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
‘95 Angels would still hold the record for "Best Playoff Odds Yet Didn’t Make the Playoffs."
’11 Red Sox would hold the record for “Team that Played Shittiest, Compared to the First Five Months”
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
If you ever wanna piss off a Mets fan
You bring up 2007 and 2008 and you say, “You know who would have really helped? Scott Kazmir.”
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I would but then they always ask me what it was like watching two idiots get tagged out at home on the same play by the guy you traded away the year before.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Fuck you, Donnelly. We have not forgotten!
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
If a phone book had been the third base coach, there would not be two outs made at home on the same play, that’s for sure.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
no fucking kidding right?
I would love that
I would roll around in that like a naked man on a pile of dirty money
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
If we’d do it in a heartbeat, chances are the Mets would go, “Wait, lemme think about it, ummmm no.”
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
They are the team thinking of moving Jason Bay to CF and taking away a job for Pagan.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Do you mean FROM Angel Pagan?
Wasn’t Angel Pagan’s defense considered so incredible that he was top-ten in WAR for a time last year?
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Sep 27, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Not like David Wright hasn’t had a major regression in his career but I’d still rather have a 3rd baseman then a RF.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I gotta get more than just baseball watching joy out of it for it to come to that
we are talking big time cash payout
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I will throw in money and food to make that happen
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 27, 2011 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Subplot alert
Bartolo Colon is pitching for his postseason life. New York’s lineup:
Eduardo Nunez SS
Curtis Granderson CF
Robinson Cano 2B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Nick Swisher RF
Jorge Posada DH
Russell Martin C
Brett Gardner LF
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