Andre Ethier Done For The Season
by Eric Stephen on Sep 8, 2011 9:04 AM PDT
in Dodgers Game Previews
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Andre Ethier's right knee, the source of some controversy in the past few weeks, has not improved, and the right fielder is out for the season. Ethier and the team made the decision jointly, and he will visit Dr. James Andrews in Alabama for a second opinion to determine the next course of action, per Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times.
In an August 28 column in the LA Times, Ethier intimated to T.J. Simers that the Dodgers were making him play hurt, a charge Ethier backed off of one day later. The team was aware of the injury and both Ethier and the team knew it would require offseason surgery, and it was Ethier's decision to continue playing as it was determined no further major damage could be done. But considering the Dodgers don't have much to play for anymore this season, it's nice that cooler heads prevailed and Ethier is getting this taken care of sooner rather than later.
Ethier since his comments to Simers has 10 hits in 25 at-bats, hitting .400/.464/.600 with two doubles, a home run, and 11 RBI. Ethier has played in eight of 10 games, starting six.
*****
The Dodgers and Nationals are scheduled to play two on Thursday, in what I believe will be the seventh doubleheader by the Dodgers since 2000, and first since April 27, 2010 at Citi Field against the Mets:
| Dodgers Doubleheaders Since 2000 | ||
| Date | Game 1 | Game 2 |
| April 27, 2010 |
Mets 4, Dodgers 0 | Mets 10, Dodgers 5 |
| April 9, 2006 |
Phillies 6, Dodgers 3 | Dodgers 6, Phillies 2 |
| September 27, 2003 |
Dodgers 5, Giants 0 | Giants 6, Dodgers 3 |
| April 28, 2002 |
Dodgers 5, Cubs 4 | Dodgers 4, Cubs 1 |
| August 25, 2000 |
Dodgers 5, Cubs 3 | Dodgers 3, Cubs 1 |
| August 1, 2000 | Pirates 6, Dodgers 0 | Dodgers 5, Pirates 3 |
All of these doubleheaders were on the road, which is understandable because there hasn't been a rainout at Dodger Stadium since April 17, 2000.
The last time the Dodgers swept a doubleheader on the road against this franchise was on Montreal on September 2, 1976. Don Sutton beat Steve Rogers in the opener, followed by Elias Sosa pitching four innings in relief for the win over Steve Denning in the nightcap. Bill Buckner had five hits in the two games, including a double, scored three of the Dodgers' seven runs, and drove in two more. Charlie Hough saved both games.
The last time the Dodgers were swept in a road doubleheader against the Expos was July 14, 1991. Oil Can Boyd beat Ramon Martinez in the first game, then Brian Barnes beat Tim Belcher in the second game. Juan Samuel had five hits in eight at-bats in the twinbill.
The Dodgers flipped their rotation for the doubleheader. Chad Billingsley, today's original scheduled starter, starts in the first game, against Chien-Ming Wang. Dana Eveland starts for the Dodgers in game two, facing Ross Detwiler.
Lineups
| Dodgers | Nationals | |||
| SS | Gordon | SS | Desmond | |
| 1B | Loney | 2B | Lombardozzi | |
| CF | Kemp | 3B | Zimmerman | |
| RF | Rivera | LF | Morse | |
| 3B | Miles |
CF | Werth | |
| LF | Sands | RF | Ankiel | |
| C | Barajas | 1B | Marrero | |
| 2B | Sellers | C | Ramos | |
| P | Billingsley | P | Wang | |
Game Time: 10:05 a.m.
TV: Prime Ticket
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it’s nice that cooler heads prevailed and Ethier is getting this taken care of sooner rather than later.
Amen
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
he gloats about everything
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 8, 2011 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
If TJ does not get involved how does this play out?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
i think basically to the same
but if Andre really needs to use him to get the teams attention there are VERY LARGE issues. well beyond $s.
by MammothDodger on Sep 8, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Seems to me communication was blowing in the wind between Andre/Trainers/Donny/Neddy.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
yea i agree
but with no way of knowing for sure, I hope it was more on Andre then anyone else, just because of what it would mean to the team otherwise. or I guess the fallback is this whole regime will be gone with new ownership.
by MammothDodger on Sep 8, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
With Dre gone,
Is it a Sands/Rivera/TGJ platoon? Or will one person take it.
by Skunkburner on Sep 8, 2011 9:23 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I’d hope they simply let Sands play everyday the rest of the year. However it would not shock me if they put Miles in RF.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
might see someone like Van Slyke or Silverio out there
once the Lookouts season ends
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 8, 2011 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
who knows
But I think Sands should be starting everyday now. He’s the future right? Rivera and TGJ are just short term “fixes” IMO. Even though Rivera has been a decent pick up.
by Dodgerblue8188 on Sep 8, 2011 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Rivera and Gwynn might be back next year and Sands may well be in AAA.
by Michael White on Sep 8, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m just nitpicking with him a little bit. We hope Sands is the future, but we really can’t make that call now. Gwynn may be with the club the next two years and if he was the team’s starting CF, the Dodgers might be better off for it.
by Michael White on Sep 8, 2011 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d be happy if he puts together consecutive good weeks as a major leaguer sometime in the next few years, and I don’t think he will. But, I am overly negative on him, so take it with a moderately sized grain of salt.
@RB_GScott
Why be overly negative
when you have such a kick-a girlfriend :-)
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
I am not on the Jerry Marching and Chowder society
but it doesn’t take all that much to put together a few good weeks – bad players have 6 week hot streaks, really bad players
I am not sold, but I don’t think he is worse than a really bad player
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 8, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
If Sands doesn’t play every day or very nearly every day the rest of the season, the Dodgers have failed as an organization.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 8, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thank you, that holds more weight when you say it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
On that note, what is a better way to make evaluations for next season? Using a few week “tryout” to determine if the player can be the starting LF? Or using a years worth of minor league stats and using some sort of MLE to determine the impact?
Why should we consider a September callup whilst playing out the string as more meaningful than spring training?
by Michael White on Sep 8, 2011 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I think they are both poor measures
September rolls out rookies and untested and bad players and so does spring training. Time will tell if Sands can cut it. But I hope he’s not written off as expendable like Tray was.
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
and I think the club thinks/hopes they got value for Tray
they didn’t trash heap tray, they traded him for someone they hope will be in the line-up next year
time will tell if they chose wisely
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 8, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
To be fair, we know no more definitively whether Gwynn will be back next year or for two years
then we do what Sands status will be. Ultimately, I think you’re right that Gwynn will be back, and I also think Sands will be given every chance to be on the big club to start next season.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
LF
should be Sands position to lose on his own.
by Dodgerblue8188 on Sep 8, 2011 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I just
think Gwynn will always be the same ol’ Gwynn. A guy who probably lasted this long because of his name. He still excels in some ways but if he’s a starter on your team, your team is probably in trouble.
by Dodgerblue8188 on Sep 8, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
All about context, if Tony Gwynn is your centerfielder and you have Braun / Hart on the sides with a Fielder at 1st then he’s very valuable. On our team, not so much.
Heck the Brewers have his RH mirror image in Carlos Gomez and even they decided they couldn’t deal with his bat no matter how brilliant he played CF.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Watching TGJR play the outfield is a thing of beauty and grace. It is also a thing of considerable value
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 8, 2011 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Gwynn has the 4th best WAR (of the hitters) on the club and has been the 4th outfielder defensive replacement for most of the season. Had Gwynn been the starter and in CF (where his defense is even more valuable) he’s 2nd only to Kemp.
The guy has value.
by Michael White on Sep 8, 2011 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
you guys are right
I never thought about the supporting cast. Kinda of just looked at what we have now.
by Dodgerblue8188 on Sep 8, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
*raises hand*
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
to a degree*
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I believe in defensive value, I have my doubts about the metrics themselves.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I have a hard time believing in the overall value of players who are pretty much defense only guys, or guys who are good hitters but are placed on an elite level due to their “defensive value”.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
statement lacks context
depends on what position they play
first base defense is a punch line to me
middle IF defense is like the holy grail to me
and defense matters to me much more than I suspect most here
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 8, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
What about LF or RF
Centerfield I can understand, as well as 3B, SS, and 2B.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Since making the all-star team in 2010
Andre
2011 551PA/11 Home Runs / .292 / .368 / .421
2010 2ndHalf 273PA/ 9 Home Runs/ . 256 / .348 /. 426
Hate to pay 13 Million for that in 2012.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
his second half OPS+ is still like 120. Hard to replace that for much less and he provides some lineup balance with Kemp being right handed.
@RB_GScott
Please John Jay is doing that for peanuts. 140 OPS+ is hard to replace, 120 isn’t.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
but
Dre’s going for the record next season
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 8, 2011 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
but his 120 is the worst he’s been in three years. I’m far more willing to believe Dre will get up to 130 than Jon Jay can get to Ethier’s four year average.
@RB_GScott
But you don’t want to pay for past production.
If Phil thinks Ethier has peaked, his position makes complete sense (move on from him.)
by Michael White on Sep 8, 2011 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed.
But going back to the original point, I think if Ethier puts up a .780 OPS like he has this year, $13mil isn’t poor value. It’s not as good as some cost-controlled guys tearing up the league, but what is?
@RB_GScott
I know the Fangraphs salary values are imperfect
But, FWIW, Fangraphs has Ethier worth $12.6MM this season. Of course, that’s with a UZR of 5.7 this year (which is WAY better than what he’s done in the past.)
So, if he turns in the exact same year next year, he’s not exactly robbing the Dodgers from a salary standpoint. Especially since its not like a cheaper alternative is in the system who can get close to replacing his value.
by Michael White on Sep 8, 2011 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
are you willing to bet 13,000,000 against 420,000 that is going to happen when you may have to decide between keeping Chad or bringing back Kuroda?
Outfielders with an OPS+ >= 110 that no one thought coming into this year would be sniffing it:
Andre would probably make more all of them combined in 2012
Rk Player OPS+ G Year Age Tm Lg PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Pos
12 Alex Gordon 141 139 2011 27 KCR AL 631 560 93 168 42 4 20 78 61 2 130 7 0 3 8 16 7 .300 .374 .496 .870 *7/3
13 Matthew Joyce 140 123 2011 26 TBR AL 457 403 66 114 29 2 18 63 46 9 91 1 0 7 6 12 1 .283 .352 .499 .851 *97/D
21 Michael Cuddyer 123 124 2011 32 MIN AL 516 465 62 131 27 1 18 64 44 3 82 4 0 3 16 8 1 .282 .347 .460 .807 *934/D1
23 Melky Cabrera 121 139 2011 26 KCR AL 634 590 89 177 39 4 17 81 32 2 83 1 6 5 10 17 8 .300 .334 .466 .800 *8/7D9
25 Andre Ethier 121 135 2011 29 LAD NL 551 487 67 142 30 0 11 62 58 9 103 3 0 3 8 0 1 .292 .368 .421 .789 *9/D
26 Jeff Francoeur 120 139 2011 27 KCR AL 595 542 68 153 44 3 17 77 35 2 114 8 0 10 16 20 10 .282 .329 .469 .798 *9
27 Nyjer Morgan 118 102 2011 30 MIL NL 370 329 52 103 18 6 4 33 14 0 65 12 12 3 6 12 3 .313 .360 .441 .801 *897
28 Brennan Boesch 118 115 2011 26 DET AL 472 428 75 121 25 1 16 54 35 2 83 5 0 4 7 5 3 .283 .341 .458 .799 79D
29 Peter Bourjos 116 128 2011 24 LAA AL 474 435 63 120 25 9 10 36 27 0 107 7 4 1 6 19 7 .276 .328 .444 .771 *8
36 Gerardo Parra 114 122 2011 24 ARI NL 422 383 48 113 17 7 7 36 37 14 75 1 0 1 7 11 1 .295 .358 .431 .789 *7/98
38 Nate Schierholtz 111 115 2011 27 SFG NL 362 335 42 93 22 1 9 41 21 3 61 4 0 2 5 7 4 .278 .326 .430 .756 *9/7
40 Garrett Jones 110 131 2011 30 PIT NL 438 387 47 95 30 1 15 56 46 2 96 1 0 4 6 6 3 .245 .324 .444 .769 *93/D
41 Laynce Nix 110 109 2011 30 WSN NL 329 304 38 78 15 1 16 43 21 1 78 1 0 3 1 2 2 .257 .304 .470 .774 *79/38D
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 9/8/2011.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
where's HJ?
he has the perfect comment for this
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 8, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ll be nice
He is getting fine outcomes, but his BABIP, lack of BB, and high K rate potentially bode ill over a larger sample size
your mileage may vary
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 8, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Broke up a no-hitter with a homerun last night.
by Michael White on Sep 8, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s basically doing exactly what we hope Sands can do when he gets regular playing time.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
He has a line drive rate of 29%, which is 3rd in the major leagues.
So yeah, while you may think a 400 BABIP it too high….he’s earning it by knocking the crap out of the ball.
10 doubles
2 hrs
in 83 ABs.
When he makes contact, he hits the ball hard.
Behind two guys with equally small sample sizes for PAs – Nick Punto and Mitch Maier, so likely quite unsustainable.
The top five MLBers in LD%, among qualifiers:
Joey Votto 27.7 %
Todd Helton 27.0 %
Michael Bourn 26.3 %
Cliff Pennington 26.0 %
Andre Ethier 25.3 % (who knew?)
Follow @DavidYoungTBLA
- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
that is not true
maybe at a macro OPS+ number, but if we are hoping for K-ing 1 out of 3 times, with a hit 4 out of 10 times he hits it…recipe for destruction
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 8, 2011 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Anyone know when Fed Ex might make an appearance?
Game 2?
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
It doesn’t sound like it, but who knows.
Mattingly was saying some bullshit about giving Fed a few weeks to get acclimated, but if he’s here he might as well play.
Right, especially in a double header
He becomes the backup if AJ starts game 2 at least
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
yah to be fair he said that before there was a DH scheduled for today
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him at least make an appearance in one of these games today (if they do play both). Otherwise I would guess he might start in next week some time, in whatever games have no playoff implications.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
he needs a few weeks to get acclimated?
What is he, a frosh moving into the dorms?
"I was a little scared he was into that Oakland thing. We swing here on 3-0." Grady Little on Andre
learning a pitching staff first instead of throwing him in there not knowing really how their pitches move, how they like to work, etc could end up with the pitchers getting frustrated or throwing pitches in situations they shouldn’t. Good luck getting a pitcher to trust him the next couple years if their first impression is them getting lit up.
@RB_GScott
i can get that
but if he’s caught Eveland before, why not let him go game 2?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 8, 2011 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
only 1 start: 4.2 IP, 4ER, 4 BB, 9K
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=t342&gid=2011_08_19_albaaa_srcaaa_1&cid=342&t=g_box
@RB_GScott
Good God
not a minor league catcher who has been brought up during the season that they expect to play has sat on the bench and become “acclimated” since I started watching the Dodgers 33 years ago.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Help me out here, because I don’t remember all the context.
1998 Lo Duca got called up 9/6 and played in only 5 games the rest of the year, starting only the last two.
2005 Navarro got called up due to the Phillips/Bako debacle.
2006 Martin was called up and started when Navarro hurt his wrist and backup Sandy Alomar couldn’t catch every day.
I don’t ncessarily agree with letting him get his feet wet from the sidelines, but I at least understand the thinking.
@RB_GScott
1998 – Lo Duca was not considered anymore a future catcher 1998 then AJ Ellis is today.. Charles Johnson was the starting catcher and was expected to be the starting catcher in 1999 until they traded him for Hundley who became the starting catcher. At best Angel Pena was supposed to be the next good young Dodger catcher.
Navarro was the future and he came up and played
Martin then became the future and he came up and played
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
There is one other player who has played more than 20 games but less than 100 PA
with an OPS+ greater or equal to 120 in 2011.
Wow. Just looked it up. He has a .400 OBP!
by Michael White on Sep 8, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I was told it his OB skills would not translate
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
has anyone ever managed to keep an OBP higher then their slugging
for a signifigant number of at bats?
Totally
Luis Castillio jumps to mind, I’m sure we have done this exercise before
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Ha ha
Not to many over the last 20 years
OB > .350
Slub < .350
500 games played
Number one is a hoot
Rk Player OBP SLG G BA OPS Pos
1 Jesse Orosco .667 .000 756 .000 .667 *1
2 John Cangelosi .372 .321 605 .256 .692 78/9D1
3 Walt Weiss .357 .325 1248 .259 .682 *6
4 Jamey Carroll .356 .348 1050 .277 .704 *456/79D8
5 Mark McLemore .355 .346 1580 .262 .701 *4795/6D8
6 Otis Nixon .354 .324 1203 .280 .678 *87/96D
7 Orlando Palmeiro .351 .350 1206 .274 .701 798/D
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 9/8/2011.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
So to go back a bit, sands plays RF. So does Rivera still platoon with Jim at 1st? Even thou he’s been tearing the hide off the ball lately. And Mitchell stays at third right? I hope they let sands play everyday. He’s the future and could use continuous exposure to everyday big league games. What ever. Go Dodgers!
by Skunkburner on Sep 8, 2011 9:48 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I asked this question way too soon earlier,
But now it’s ok. Who will our pitcher be this Sunday vs the stupid giants? I faced an ugly mob lady time I asked. It was also two months ago. A Well deserved bashing I received.
by Skunkburner on Sep 8, 2011 9:51 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
there are no pretty mobs at TBLA
a couple of pretty people maybe, but in mass the ugly comes
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 8, 2011 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Unless Bills
doesn’t warm up and pitch today, the Dodgers will have Kershaw, Kuroda and Lilly this weekend
Looks like
the afternoon weather will be sketchy but if they stay until midnight, they should get the games in.
Ugggh... they can't stay til midnight to play can they?
Dodgers need to fly cross country to SF. I hope they don’t try to do that for a game that means nothing.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
instructions for both teams
Pitchers: Throw the ball down the middle
Hitters: Swing at the first pitch
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 8, 2011 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
but the game they are going to means almost nothing too
and they get 3 hours back right?
If they have a night game they should be fine
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 8, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
midnight is only 9pm our time, they’d get in at 3am PT and have plenty of time to sleep before the game starts (I hope it’s a night game)
@RB_GScott
it is
7:10
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 8, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
correction
7:15!
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 8, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Looks like
Charlie and Mo have ammo for another round of interminable stories about rain and travel …
by TopDeckTrueBlue on Sep 8, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Game is at 10:30 today?
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
right now
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 8, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
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